New Mexico Highlands University students Lily Padilla and Natasha Vásquez created the Aspen designs that adorned each of the exhibit panels and the website.
The sheepherder watched his flock by day, traveling many miles while the sheep grazed on the range. As his flock pastured, he sat on a rock or on his coat; he whittled some object or composed songs of poetry until it was time to move the flock to water or better pasture. Many of the corridos are an inheritance from the unlettered sheepherder. . . When I think about the herders on the endless Llano, I know that they are the unsung heroes of an industry which was our livelihood for generations.
—Fabiola Cabeza de Baca, 1994 (8)
For Manitos, or Hispanic New Mexicans, sheep symbolized a way of life. Working with sheep not only provided a way to earn a living, but it also contributed to a fiber arts tradition that has been cultivated and sustained over many generations. Sheep became a symbol of Nuevomexicano culture and an example of affirmation and resistance in the face of U.S. expansion west. This essay focuses on two sides of sheep culture, both illuminated through the Following the Manito Trail exhibit (March 26-July 31, 2022) and its corresponding cultural and educational programming at the Millicent Rogers Museum in Taos, New Mexico. The migration narratives of sheepherders and the cultural expressions of fiber artists are important, but undervalued, aspects of the overall cultural contributions of sheep in New Mexico.
This essay asks what it meant for Manitos to practice sheepherding or to create art from sheep. Additionally, it reveals that the lessons gleaned from this work must be passed on to future generations. As Fabiola Cabeza de Baca writes above, sheepherding culture is our livelihood and our inheritance. We demonstrate the utility in learning about migration and cultural arts that arose from Manito sheep culture and link this to culturally and linguistically relevant educational programs for K-12 students in New Mexico.
Following the Manito Trail Exhibit
In 2015, scholars from the University of Wyoming and the University of New Mexico formalized a collaborative project titled Following the Manito Trail (FMT).1 The words “Manito” and “Manita” come from the Spanish words “hermanito” (little brother) and “hermanita” (little sister). They are terms of endearment used among many Hispano communities in New Mexico for generations.2 The project focuses on Manito migration from the territory/state of New Mexico to other parts of the U.S. West from the 19th century to the present. Manito movement through the 1940s-1950s was fluid as Manitos found work in sugar beet fields and as sheepherders, railroad workers, miners, and agricultural workers in Colorado, Wyoming, Arizona, Nevada, Utah, and California (Martínez and Fonseca-Chávez 2021). As many of them shifted from seasonal work to more permanent jobs in their new locales, the culture, folklore, and language traditions of their Manito homelands traveled with them. They created Manito enclaves outside New Mexico and maintained their connections to the families they left behind.
As members of the FMT team, we collaborated with the Millicent Rogers Museum to co-curate an exhibit that highlighted ten families from Taos County who left the state to work in various economies. Some returned to Taos County, while others made homes in other parts of New Mexico and throughout the U.S. West. This exhibit was created in partnership with various funding agencies, institutions, and community collaborators and in 2022 and 2023 traveled to two additional sites.3
Image Detail: Sophie Varos Graves Carson Colcha – Rio Grande Hispanic Revival. 1930s wool embroidery on monk’s cloth. Gift of Paul Peralta-Ramos, MRM 1988.011.002. Image from Following the Manito Trail K-4 Educator Packet, 8.
Exhibit Design: Cultivating Forests and Pathways
Many members of the FMT team have direct experience with outward migration. We approached the exhibit with an understanding that our personal stories could exist alongside our scholarly expertise to provide educational opportunities to multiple audiences. As authors of this essay and as FMT team members, we bring knowledge of both sides of sheep culture to the table. Vanessa Fonseca-Chávez is from northwestern New Mexico and her great-grandfather, Juan “Chavitos” Chávez, worked as a sheepherder in that part of the state. Patricia Perea is a colchera whose family roots are in eastern New Mexico and west Texas. She wrote the poem “Manita Ritual” for the exhibit to honor her migration story.
The exhibit was designed around the seasonal changes of Aspen trees, mimicking the work that many Manito sheepherders undertook during their travels to nearby states. The exhibit featured the following elements:
• Family trees, photos, stories, and cultural heritage items from ten families
• Colchas, religious art, and other materials from the museum
• Poetry by Patricia Perea and Alfonso Archuleta
• Oral history listening booth
• Photographs of arborglyphs and sheep
• Gallery Guide
• K-12 Educator Packets
• Humanities Dialogue Panel Series
• Listening Booth static website at https://www.manitotrail.com
Undergraduate and graduate students were valued co-producers of knowledge and vital to the success of the exhibit. New Mexico Highlands University students Lily Padilla and Natasha Vásquez served as cultural technology interns and created the Aspen designs that adorned each of the exhibit panels, as well as the website. As Manitas, they understood the significance of these trees and worked closely with the larger exhibit team to bring the vision to fruition. Arizona State University (ASU) PhD student Jesús Villa, also a Manito hailing from La Villita, New Mexico, translated the English materials into Spanish, ensuring that the language reflected a regional New Mexican dialect. He conducted oral history interviews with some of the families who were highlighted. Jesús worked with ASU masters students Vanessa Reynaga and Trevonte “Tre” McClain, who served as graduate student interns. Vanessa and Trevonte used the Aspen motif created by Natasha and Lily and co-designed the website that functioned as a listening booth showcasing excerpts from the oral history interviews. Student scholars are part of a lineage of educators, both formal and informal, who have created the pathways to undertake this exhibit. It was important for us to listen to the voices of the community and to create educational opportunities for our current students, as well as New Mexico K-12 students who were not receiving the kind of culturally and linguistically relevant education that they deserve.
Colcha is a Spanish term for “bed covering,” and, here, it refers to a Hispanic New Mexican art form mainly made by women since the mid-1700s. Colcha refers to a method of embroidering wool yarn to a fabric backing cloth. (From Following the Manito Trail K-4 Educator Packet, 6)
Yazzie/Martinez v. State of New Mexico
The New Mexico Public Education Department (PED) implemented new Social Studies standards for the 2023-24 academic school year,4 following the 2018 Yazzie/Martinez v. State of New Mexico decision. The PED was charged with creating standards that reflect the diverse experiences of New Mexico’s student population and provide equal access to career opportunities to all students. It was ruled that New Mexico:
had failed to comply with state and federal laws regarding the education of Native American and ELL students, including the New Mexico Indian Education Act, Bilingual Multicultural Education Act, and the Hispanic Education Act . . . [and] had failed to provide students with the programs and services that it acknowledges prepare them for college and career. (New Mexico Center on Law and Poverty)
The new Social Studies standards provide cultural engagement and critical thinking skills to help New Mexico students process their histories and their experiences. As we were working on the educational materials for the exhibit, we found that the methodology of FMT perfectly complemented the new standards for our exhibit educator packets for Grades K-4, Grades 5-8, and Grades 9-12.
“Leaving Home:” Grades K-4 Educator Packet
A key theme throughout the K-4 standards includes understanding one’s place within a community. The title for this unit was “Leaving Home” and its purpose was to teach students about migration in New Mexico history and how those migrations relate to the overall stories of Manitos.
Selected questions generated for Grades K-4:
- Why would people migrate?
- Where did New Mexicans go?
- What happened when New Mexicans came back home?
- What kinds of stories did they take with them?
Activities ask students to reflect on what it means to be Manito both locally and nationally. Manitos were primarily migrating within the U.S. Southwest and often were motivated by family and economics. Sometimes they were moving to places where family had already relocated and where job opportunities were more abundant. K-4 students are provided with a map of the U.S., a family tree, and a colcha detail page and coloring page to relate to family, the Manito Trail, and the cultural arts produced from sheep wool for more than two centuries. The practice of colcha lends itself to multigenerational learning opportunities. By bringing generations together to engage in colcha, they are also passing down and receiving stories. By connecting with these stories and traditions, students can better understand their cultural inheritances and find ways to engage in them as well.
Colchera Traditions and Inheritances
As part of the exhibit, we curated cultural programming that ties our education goals to larger learning opportunities for educators and communities. As the K-4 students were preparing to color in colchas, museum attendees were learning about colcha embroidery and weaving—two of the most visible byproducts of sheep culture in northern New Mexico and southern Colorado. Each has a methodology and style particular to this region. For example, the colcha stitch maximizes the use of yarn. Rather than distributing the design evenly on the front and back of the cloth as you would see with other styles of embroidery, the colcha stitch keeps much of the design on the front, leaving little more than an outline on the back. There is also a distinction between two of the most well-known weaving traditions of New Mexico: northern Río Grande and Diné. Aside from the obvious difference in design motifs, the other distinction is methodological. Diné weavers do not tie their rugs and blankets off with fringe as Nuevomexicana or Manita weavers do. There are also similarities in the traditions. Both communities prefer the long-haired churro sheep’s wool, and it is also common for northern New Mexican weavers to use what is called a “Navajo spindle” to spin their wool into yarn.
Many weavers and colcheras attribute the resourcefulness of their techniques to the long journeys of the past. It took a long time to transport the necessary sheep and then shear their wool. The roads were arduous and the weather often bad, so they saved what they could and only used what was necessary and readily available. This is part of the story of how the tradition was passed across the generations. While these stories are undoubtedly part of a long history of the fiber arts in New Mexico, another key component was the arrival of the Works Progress Administration (WPA) and its explicit purpose—bolstering the Depression-Era economy, including through the preservation of fiber art traditions.
The WPA recorded fiber art processes thoroughly in documents such as press releases and official reports. Tey Marianna Nunn writes: “The explicit detail describing the techniques recovers ‘lost’ knowledge and provides important information about both the Spanish-inspired weaving process from beginning to end, and sources for the natural dyes” (Nunn 2001, 105). Nunn argues that this attention to detail in the creation of fiber art pieces prioritized formal descriptions of the material culture rather than recording information about the artists/makers. While that is true, the written accounts provided a means to preserve the tradition and informed our reintroduction of the long history of fiber arts within the exhibit.
Cultural Fibers: Preservation and Heritage in Northern New Mexican Fiber Arts
In April 2022, the Millicent Rogers Museum hosted the third panel in the five-part Humanities Dialogue Panel Series, “Cultural Fibers: Preservation and Heritage in Northern New Mexican Fiber Arts.” The featured speaker was the weaver, colchera, storyteller, and bilingual education teacher Juanita Jaramillo Lavadie. This programming was an opportunity for educators and community members to expand their understanding of this important fiber tradition in New Mexico’s history and diaspora.
As a practicing colchera, Lavadie is aware of the history of fiber arts in New Mexico. She began her talk by situating herself within her family, her community, and her landscape. Throughout the FMT exhibit, the museum displayed colchas and weavings that were part of its collection—beautiful pieces of art meant to be admired from afar. In her talk, however, Lavadie articulated a critical perspective that counteracts the collection and display process of the museum:
The earliest memory I have are of the frazadas that were at my grandmother’s house and my sister and I would spend nights . . . My grandmother would spread multiple frazadas on the floor, quilts and blankets so that was kind of like a special bedding. I grew up with these blankets. I grew up with them intimately. I mean just putting my head on them and dreaming on them. (Lavadie 2022)
For Lavadie, these blankets are not only beautiful, but her storytelling reflects that they are also meant to be used and loved closely. The spoken words are not exact: The blankets are comforting; they signify family and safety. The unspoken is the critique that takes them out of homes and into spaces that offer little contextualization. At the museum, the blankets can remain beautiful, but not necessarily useful. For Lavadie, the worst thing a person could be was “inútil” or “useless.”
Sheep and the ways sheep culture worked within Manito communities serve as testimony to the large skill set sheepherders and their families possessed. They cared for sheep and used their wool to create blankets, clothing, and rugs–all requiring a variety of practical skills. At the Millicent Rogers Museum, these are words of contestation. The material objects hanging from walls or displayed in cases are not “useless.” Their true worth, for Lavadie, is in their utility. In other words, they are to be dreamed on.
Grades 5-8 Educator Packet
Manito migration patterns were highly influenced by U.S. colonization—a topic that Grades 5-8 are introduced to via the FMT educator packet. The unit title, again, is “Leaving Home,” and students are asked to explore the importance of Manito voices and experiences in New Mexico and how those inform other narratives around them.
Selected questions for Grades 5-8 :
- What geographic, economic, and cultural factors impacted Manito migration?
- What challenges did Manitos face?
- What is the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo? How is this treaty important in the stories of Manito families?
- How do governments make decisions? How do people make decisions? How are people influenced?
The activities ask students to create posters for companies that might have attracted workers in the sheepherding, sugar beet, or mining industry—all important economic opportunities for Manitos in the mid-1800s—following the Mexican American War and the signing of the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo in 1848. Students learn about treaties and their place in U.S. history. Lastly, they are encouraged to engage with the family panels from the exhibit and to write a newspaper article about these families’ lives or to assume the life of a sheepherder and document it via social media. These activities prepare students for understanding how belonging works through moments of change, and it lays the groundwork for them to participate in their civics and government courses that will come later in their educational journey. Addressing these themes in the exhibit empowers students to learn both where they came from and to be proud of the contributions of their Manito ancestors to the overall history and economy of the U.S.
Manito Migrations
The second of the Humanities Dialogue Panel Series took place in March 2022. “Manito Migrations and Mountain Memories” featured presentations by Troy Lovata and Mathew Sandoval and relates to the learning goals for Grades 5-8. Lovata’s grandfather was from Hernández, New Mexico, and left in the 1920s to work in Wyoming. Lovata’s research includes the study of graffiti, especially regarding Aspen trees, and what those carvings communicate about people, place, and time. His presentation revealed the importance of migration paths that Manitos traveled for work, as well as the U.S. colonial era policies that prompted these migrations.
In his panel presentation, “Using the Trees to Mark Mountains Trails: Using the Mountains to Define Manitos,” Lovata noted that “Manitos, whether they’re in New Mexico or went somewhere else to work, from the mid-1800s to the mid-20th century, were working on sheep and they were going there to be laborers, sometimes they were herding sheep and sometimes they were shearing sheep” (Lovata 2022). Sheepherders often traveled, traversing the landscape and marking their presence. Gulliford (2018) frames these as “sheepscapes,” or sheepherder landscapes that bridge a past practice to the present. Among these sheepscapes are arborglyphs, a type of “ephemeral art…that would fall and be forgotten, yet herders wanted to leave their marks” (14). Aspen trees were the chosen canvas for these arborglyphs, and sheepherders took full advantage of that canvas to communicate that “I was here…This is who I was, this is who I am” (Lovata 2022).
An arborglyph from the Sierra Madre Range in southern Wyoming. Photo by Adam Herrera.
The recurring motif of the lonely sheepherder is often carved on Aspens and invokes the solitude of this type of work as well as the emotion that emerged to express the sentiments of their chosen profession. Among the most popular images are carvings of women accompanied by “poetry about the women who have wronged them or the women they hope to go back home to” (Lovata 2022). While many of these poems and verses found their way into early Spanish-language newspapers, words and symbols were also carved on trees by sheepherders.
As Grades 5-8 become familiar with this content, they can envision what it must have been like for their own families to leave home, to create livelihoods for themselves in the diaspora, and to find ways to connect, via folklore, to the homes they left behind. Students also can use this history to understand better their sense of place and the important role that Manitos had in moving forward the economy of the U.S. Southwest in the 19th and 20th centuries.
Grades 9-12 Educator Packet: Oral History and Family Research Methodology
For Grades 9-12, the Social Studies standards ask students to analyze and engage critically with historical narratives. The exhibit demonstrates a methodology upon which students can model their own projects. The family panels in the exhibit and the listening booth rely on oral histories and primary and secondary source data, offering materials for critical inquiry. In academia, this is a basic practice; however, it is something students struggle with well into their college careers. Thus, it was important that we include questions asking students to identify their sources and how they would use them in their own work. This fulfills one of the most vital components of the Yazzie/Martinez decision—making New Mexico’s students career and college ready.
The activities for this unit, like those of K-4, involved mapping and creating family trees. However, the engagement included original research of family histories and stories and listening to the oral histories in the exhibit to identify best practices for oral history research. Additionally, students are asked to map industries, company towns, and the structures that sustain them. Finally, students engage with public records and research population data to understand the connections between their own families and larger systems of migration.
In continuing with the theme “Leaving Home,” Grades 9-12 are asked to expand upon Manito migration narratives and their relationship to various structures, including family, community, the nation, and the world. Questions include:
- What role did Manito migration contribute to the changing demographics of traditional communities both in New Mexico and nationally?
- How do the oral histories of Manito families contribute to the 20th century historical analysis of social, political, geographic, and economic issues? How can this analysis apply to understanding current issues?
- What role do the Aspen trees play in the Manito migration narrative?
- How did Manito migration patterns interact with the physical processes of earth’s biosphere?
Mountain Memories
For many Manitos in the diaspora, the Aspen trees are a connecting theme, one of the central questions in the unit for Grades 9-12. This, in turn, connects to the mountain memories of one of our Humanities Dialogue Panel Series presentations by Mathew Sandoval. Sandoval’s family is from Taos and Río Arriba Counties in New Mexico and his grandfather worked as a sheepherder. As a performance artist, Sandoval employs spoken word to explore personal histories and stories tied to mountain landscapes in New Mexico and throughout the diaspora.
Aspen trees begin to grow at an altitude of 6,500 feet and are found in mountain landscapes throughout the U.S. West. The trees invoked an intense connection for Sandoval. As one of the oral histories that 9-12 graders can explore, Sandoval shared: “I could see exactly why they [Sandoval’s family] moved to eastern Nevada because eastern Nevada looks exactly like northern New Mexico… the same kind of foliage, really, I mean Aspen trees everywhere… There’s this overwhelming familiarity that happened when I first visited the Taos area and Río Arriba…that olfactory sense when you can smell home” (Sandoval 2021). Although Sandoval never lived in New Mexico, he is transported back to the home of his ancestors through the cultural and folk traditions they carried with them. They ate tortillas in Nevada, foraged for piñón, and were campfire storytellers who reveled in all opportunities to be in the mountains.
Sandoval’s family migrated to McGill, Nevada, a copper mining town run by Kennecott Copper Company and built atop a mountain. But before his grandfather was a copper miner, he was a sheepherder for the Doyle Robinson Ranch at the age of 11 when living outside Taos. These tidbits of information offer students a place to start their own research, looking into mining companies and ranches as sites of employment for Manitos.
Sandoval’s story also highlights another important area of research for Grade 9-12 students–the social and economic challenges Manito families faced. Although Sandoval’s great-grandfather Lucas Sandoval would not have the opportunity to travel as the generations after him did, his labor as a lumberman was part of the railroad system that connected the U.S. West in the late 19th century. Lucas worked in what is known today as the Carson National Forest near Taos, constructing railroad ties from trees, “using his broad ax to trim timber with precision” (Sandoval and Lovata 2024, 61). When Lucas passed away, Sandoval returned to the homeland of his grandfather to pay tribute to his ancestor who “died deep in the forest…in a grove of Aspens…whose bark was carved with memories…whose leaves shook like tambourines” (Sandoval and Lovata 2024, 61-2). For Sandoval, the legacy of Manitos, their labor, and their families are inscribed onto the landscape, heard through the trees, and remembered by the stories we tell.
Sandoval’s presentation masterfully wove together the ways Manitos are deeply tied to New Mexico and the states where they find themselves. The understanding of how Manitos were connected to sheep and other wage economies offered a grounding for Grade 9-12 students to comprehend some of the larger questions posed by this unit.
Conclusion: Community Education and Legacies of Learning
The Following the Manito Trail exhibit at the Millicent Rogers Museum presented an opportune moment to address some of the most pressing questions and complexities of Manito sheep culture. The exhibit used the landscape as a design element to explore Manito migration, the stories that families carried with them, and the ways Manitos felt included and excluded in the formation of the U.S. West economies.
We were grateful to have been able to offer to the community a collaborative and scholarly perspective rooted in migration, diaspora, and culture bearing over many centuries. This kind of education exists in community, and the FMT project team carefully curated presentations by regional community members and scholarly experts who also experienced that migration, and those who bore witness to the migrations of their own family over time. As Lovata and Sandoval demonstrate, mountain memories and trees marking the pathways of sheepherders are ways to keep Manitos from being written out of history.
Likewise, Lavadie’s discussion about the utility of fiber arts adds significant knowledge to a cultural tradition that often finds itself hung on walls of museums, outside its practical use. These perspectives challenge museum spaces and ask what can be done to further the histories and stories of sheep culture in New Mexico through an education grounded in community knowledge, storytelling, and culture bearing. The ways Manitos forged new understandings of their old and new locales is significant, and they have participated in preservation of their cultural traditions through storytelling; marking the landscape; and the production of cultural arts such as embroidery, textile weavings, and more. They teach us what it was like to travel those trails and impart wisdom upon future generations of storytellers and culture bearers. Each of the K-12 packets ended with questions about futurity–prompting students to think about future migration pathways and how their understanding of the past can inform future decision making in their home state. The Yazzie/Martinez v. New Mexico ruling has shown that the state has failed to fully integrate bilingual and bicultural experiences into the curriculum. This exhibit prepares our students to delve into their past and to be active participants in the formation of their future stories and selves.
Vanessa Fonseca-Chávez is an Associate Professor of English and Associate Dean of Inclusion and Student Success at Arizona State University. She is the author of Colonial Legacies in Chicana/o Literature and Culture: Looking through the Kaleidoscope (University of Arizona Press, 2020) and the co-editor of three books. Orcid 0009-0000-8218-1906
Patricia Perea is the Instructional Coordinator at the New Mexico History Museum. She is also an Adjunct Professor in the Department of Chicana and Chicano Studies at the University of New Mexico. She is the co-author of The Pueblo Food Experience: Whole Foods of Our Ancestors (Museum of New Mexico Press, 2016) and a published essayist and poet.
Endnotes
1 The FMT project team consists of Co-Directors Levi Romero and Vanessa Fonseca-Chávez, Research Scholars Trisha Martínez and Patricia Perea, Graduate Student Scholar Jesús Villa, and Research Consultant Troy Lovata.
2 This definition is taken from an exhibit panel titled “Being Manito.”
3 The Following the Manito Trail exhibit and programming were sponsored by the Millicent Rogers Museum, the Following the Manito Trail project, the Northern Río Grande National Heritage Area, the New Mexico Humanities Council, New Mexico Highlands University, the Manitos Community Memory Project, New Mexico Historic Sites, New Mexico Department of Cultural Affairs, Los Luceros Historic Site, and Santa Fe Community College. The exhibit project team included Levi Romero, Vanessa Fonseca-Chávez, Patricia Perea, Trisha Venisa-Alicia Martínez, Jesús Villa, Michelle Lanteri, Karen Chertok, Lily Padilla, Natasha Vásquez, Trevonte “Tre” McClain, and Vanessa Reynaga. The static website for the exhibit can be found here http://www.manitotrail.com.
4 https://webnew.ped.state.nm.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/NM-Standards-508.pdf
URLs
Millicent Rogers Museum https://www.millicentrogers.org
NM Social Studies standards https://webnew.ped.state.nm.us/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/NM-Standards-508.pdf
Yazzie/Martinez v. State of New Mexico https://www.nmpovertylaw.org/subissues/yazzie-martinez-v-state-of-new-mexico/#:~:text=The%20court%20ordered%20the%20state,learners%20and%20students%20with%20disabilities.
K-12 Educator Packets https://www.millicentrogers.org/pages/following-the-manito-trail
Works Cited
Cabeza de Baca, Fabiola. 1994. We Fed Them Cactus. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press.
Gulliford, Andrew. 2018. The Wooly West: Colorado’s Hidden History of Sheepscapes. College Station: Texas A&M University Press.
Lavadie, Juanita Jaramillo. 2022. Cultural Fibers: Preservation and Heritage in Northern New Mexican Weaving. Presentation for the Following the Manito Trail Humanities Dialogue Panel Series, Taos, New Mexico, March.
Lovata, Troy. 2022 Using the Trees to Mark Mountain Trails: Using the Mountains to Define Manitos. Presentation for the Following the Manito Trail Humanities Dialogue Panel Series, Taos, New Mexico, March.
Martínez, Trisha Venisa-Alicia and Vanessa Fonseca-Chávez. 2021. Finding and Building Community on the Manito Trail. In Western Lands and Western Voices: Essays on Public History in the American West, ed. Gregory E. Smoak. Salt Lake City: University of Utah Press, 85-100.
Nunn, Tey Marianna. 2001. Sin Nombre: Hispana and Hispano Artists of the New Deal Era. Albuquerque: University of New Mexico Press.
Reynaga, Vanessa and Trevonte “Tre” McClain. Following the Manito Trail Exhibit Listening Station, http://www.manitotrail.com.
Sandoval, Mathew. 2022. Campfire Stories of My Father. Presentation for the Following the Manito Trail Humanities Dialogue Panel Series, Taos, New Mexico, March.
—. 2021. Oral History Interview. September. Mesa, Arizona.
Sandoval, Mathew and Troy Lovata. 2024. Campfire Stories of My Fathers (Poem). Chamisa: A Journal of Literary, Performance, and Visual Arts of the Greater Southwest. 3.1: 60-9, https://digitalrepository.unm.edu/chamisa/vol3/iss1/4.